Forum

The purpose of this forum is to allow communication between registered users of Liberland.org. Liberland officials generally do not make statements in this forum and only do so with rare exceptions. See our News section, email announcements and Facebook page for official statements.

Troubles of land mass


EvanHoier
Inserted 10.05.2018 02:04:06  
+1 -0
Respond
This is all great, and if we can get the land and we can settle, great. However, my trouble is with the huge population coming in to live in such a small place. To be honest, if we could experiment and show that it works, i'm sure that referendums would be held in the neighboring countries to attempt to integrate into Liberland. If that happened, I wonder what the governments of Serbia and Croatia would do. I fear something similar to the Ukraine War at the moment.

Thipdar
Inserted 13.05.2018 00:52:19  
+0 -0
Respond
EvanHoier wrote:
> This is all great, and if we can get the land and we can settle, great. However, my trouble is with the huge population coming in to live in such a small place. To be honest, if we could experiment and show that it works, i'm sure that referendums would be held in the neighboring countries to attempt to integrate into Liberland. If that happened, I wonder what the governments of Serbia and Croatia would do. I fear something similar to the Ukraine War at the moment.

As I have stated before, I believe that Liberland will never be able to divert enough resources to successfully support a defensive force. As a result, a different approach will be required - and it will likely be a diplomatic solution, rather than a military solution.

Fargoth18
Inserted 17.05.2018 20:49:01  
+1 -0
Respond
Thipdar wrote:
> As I have stated before, I believe that Liberland will never be able to divert enough resources to successfully support a defensive force. As a result, a different approach will be required - and it will likely be a diplomatic solution, rather than a military solution.

i disagree completely, i don't think that Liberland could or should support a standing army. However i think it is definitely possible that their could be some sort of reserve or militia for emergency. Liberland has around 150,000 people with citizenship's (this number is very inaccurate as these numbers are old and it is Likely that a lot of people would not actually move to Liberland) that could be as many as 60,000 militiamen that's 4 times the size of Croatia's army. I Doubt this force could win long war against either Croatia or Serbia but it could win short term conflicts against Croatia and Serbia as Liberland should be able to mobilise its milita far quicker than either of the two. Liberland could grab land quickly and form an elastic defence until foreign powers intervened or a peace could be negotiated. A Capable militia could also possibly work as a deterrent against any attacks from neighbours.

ViktorH
Inserted 18.05.2018 08:27:55  
+0 -2
Respond
Liberland is not a real state. It is just some economic project of oligarchs who want to avoid taxes and live from donations. Why would anyone other fight for Liberland? Maybe the oligarchs owning Liberland project could buy some mercenaries to fight with Croatia, but Croatia is a NATO member state and Liberland has no rights to Gornja Siga, because it is administred by Croatia as Yugoslavia successor, so the mercenaries would be quickly eliminated. So the Liberland oligarchs can only maybe discuss the project of no tax area with Croatia, but it is no diplomacy. Diplomacy is between two sovereign parties who respect each other, but Liberland is a mere economic project within Croatia. But Croatia is also bound by many international treaties like UN Declaration of human rights, EU, etc., but the Liberland project refuses all that, so there is no way Liberland project can exist in Gornja Siga.

TomWalls
Inserted 18.05.2018 22:18:25  
+0 -0
Respond
Economic projects of oligarchs? Which oligarchs are those?


ViktorH
Inserted 19.05.2018 09:37:29  
+0 -0
Respond
TomWalls napsal(a):
> Economic projects of oligarchs? Which oligarchs are those?
>
Liberland "Constitution" says:

§IV.22. All Bills which have been passed by the Assembly in accordance with the provisions of this Article shall be considered by the Council.

§IV.22(1) The Council shall be composed of Individuals who hold shares of the Fund of the Free Republic of Liberland.
§IV.22(3) The position of the Councillor shall not be considered to be public office.

§IV.23. The Council shall debate and vote on all Bills passed by the Assembly.

§IV.23(3) Should a Bill be rejected by the Council, it shall be discarded.

Based on this Liberland is an oligarchy. It is a private business owned by the shareholders aka "Councillors" who hold the stock of the Liberland private company. It is like if the USA was owned by let's say Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett and Mark Zuckerberg who could veto any law.


ViktorH
Inserted 19.05.2018 10:01:37  
+0 -0
Respond
Why is Liberland called a republic?

The definition of republic says (source Wikipedia):

A republic (Latin: res publica) is a form of government in which the country is considered a "public matter", not the private concern or property of the rulers.

This is in contrary to the Liberland "constitution" as I demonstrated above which says, that Councillors hold shares of the Fund of the Free Republic of Liberland and any "Bill" rejected by them should be discarded. So the "Constitution" says that Liberland is a "private matter" of the rulers.

Liberland is NOT a republic! Because it is not public! Liberland is res privata, some private company or economic project.

ViktorH
Inserted 19.05.2018 11:59:10  
+0 -0
Respond
Liberland is also not a state because it has no exclusive power over some territory and even claims that there will be no such power. But who would enforce the laws? If Croatia left Gornja Siga the area would explode into a civil war immediately because of this Liberland scam that Mr. Jedlicka has caused. Lots of private forces would fight for gaining the most power in that area and because there would be no public power, the result would depend only on the funds of the oligarchs financing their private armies. Because Liberland is not a republic, there would be no public interest to create some republican army that would become the supreme power to guarantee the laws. Life in Liberland would be permanent terror and struggle for power among the oligarchs owning Liberland especially because of the limited space available.

CudjoeChick
Inserted 26.05.2018 21:17:55  
+0 -0
Respond
VictorH: Isn't Monaco very similar? They are the 2nd smallest country with no armed defense, correct? Tourism is their income source, as I presume Liberland would follow suit for cash flow. Is Liberland situated in a certain strategic political location as opposed to Monaco?

Thipdar
Inserted 27.05.2018 18:00:34  
+0 -0
Respond
Fargoth18 wrote:
> Thipdar wrote:
> > As I have stated before, I believe that Liberland will never be able to divert enough resources to successfully support a defensive force. As a result, a different approach will be required - and it will likely be a diplomatic solution, rather than a military solution.
>
> i disagree completely, i don't think that Liberland could or should support a standing army. However i think it is definitely possible that their could be some sort of reserve or militia for emergency. Liberland has around 150,000 people with citizenship's (this number is very inaccurate as these numbers are old and it is Likely that a lot of people would not actually move to Liberland) that could be as many as 60,000 militiamen that's 4 times the size of Croatia's army. I Doubt this force could win long war against either Croatia or Serbia but it could win short term conflicts against Croatia and Serbia as Liberland should be able to mobilise its milita far quicker than either of the two. Liberland could grab land quickly and form an elastic defence until foreign powers intervened or a peace could be negotiated. A Capable militia could also possibly work as a deterrent against any attacks from neighbours.
>

Disagree all you want, but Liberland doesn't have the means to support 60,000 militia. It has water, trees and mosquitoes. It has no food, no military fuels and no military arms. The government cannot currently handle the logistics for 60,000 people at once within the borders of the country (and it may never be able to handle that many). Dreams of Liberland being able to militarily defend itself (let alone invade neighboring territory) are a fantasy. Frankly, the country has more important issues to cope with.

To enter the thread, please log in

Captcha code:
Enter thread